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(01-28-2026, 02:40 PM)supafreak84 Wrote: I don't completely agree as a lot of organizations, especially the good ones, have a clear power structure. Roseman, Snead, Schneider, Lynch, etc. We've struggled drafting for four years. There is virtually nothing to speak of outside the 1st round, which even then has been hit and miss. When Reichart is the big feather in Kwesi's cap in that department...its a problem. Meanwhile, teams within the division have been loading up on young draft talent for four years. There's just been a lot of smoke with who is calling the shots or who's responsible for what in this organization and I wish ownership would put out a statement giving some clarity.
That’s not likely to happen, at least not for a few years. When you evaluate Kwesi, try to be fair and consider the good with the bad, otherwise you won’t be taken seriously. The 2022 draft was terrible. One of the worst in our history. I think, objectively, our drafts have improved since then, despite not having a 2nd rounder in any of them, combined with another pick dying before he played a down.
And while we may never know who lobbied for whom, the 2025 free agency class was underwhelming. I can say that because it’s the truth. But we also have to admit that the 2024 free agency class wasn’t just the best in our history, it might to be one of the best in the NFL over the last few years. You have to admit that because it’s the truth: Sam Darnold, Jonathan Greenard, Andrew Van Ginkle, Blake Cashman and Jalen Redmond? C’mon, I don’t care who you are, that’s just a ridiculous class, especially considering what we paid to get them. If that’s not some kind of record for ROI I don’t know what is.
The biggest reason the Vikings were still competive in 2025 despite our league-worst QB play was largely because of that class.
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(01-28-2026, 03:21 PM)MaroonBells Wrote: That’s not likely to happen, at least not for a few years. When you evaluate Kwesi, try to be fair and consider the good with the bad, otherwise you won’t be taken seriously. The 2022 draft was terrible. One of the worst in our history. I think, objectively, our drafts have improved since then, despite not having a 2nd rounder in any of them, combined with another pick dying before he played a down.
And while we may never know who lobbied for whom, the 2025 free agency class was underwhelming. I can say that because it’s the truth. But we also have to admit that the 2024 free agency class wasn’t just the best in our history, it might to be one of the best in the NFL over the last few years. You have to admit that because it’s the truth: Sam Darnold, Jonathan Greenard, Andrew Van Ginkle, Blake Cashman and Jalen Redmond? C’mon, I don’t care who you are, that’s just a ridiculous class, especially considering what we paid to get them. If that’s not some kind of record for ROI I don’t know what is.
The biggest reason the Vikings were still competive in 2025 despite our league-worst QB play was largely because of that class.
FICA.... you cant use the "no 2nd round picks" as an excuse as it was his moves that cost the team those 2nd round picks. if the team had been largely successful despite his draft blunders you could say it was due to how he used those 2nd rounders, but... I think most that are honest will say the last few years have been less than great, even 24 with the 14 wins, most all knew that team wasnt what their record suggested and this is largely a result of all the holes and lack of depth on the roster.
Why isn't Chuck Foreman in the Hall of Fame?
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(01-28-2026, 03:35 PM)JimmyinSD Wrote: FICA.... you cant use the "no 2nd round picks" as an excuse as it was his moves that cost the team those 2nd round picks. if the team had been largely successful despite his draft blunders you could say it was due to how he used those 2nd rounders, but... I think most that are honest will say the last few years have been less than great, even 24 with the 14 wins, most all knew that team wasnt what their record suggested and this is largely a result of all the holes and lack of depth on the roster.
Of course. But it’s not like he lost those picks in a poker game. One was used for TJ Hockenson and the other two for Dallas Turner. You can maybe argue that those players were not WORTH those 2nd rounders. I don’t know who would make that argument, but it’s a different argument altogether.
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(01-28-2026, 03:21 PM)MaroonBells Wrote: That’s not likely to happen, at least not for a few years. When you evaluate Kwesi, try to be fair and consider the good with the bad, otherwise you won’t be taken seriously. The 2022 draft was terrible. One of the worst in our history. I think, objectively, our drafts have improved since then, despite not having a 2nd rounder in any of them, combined with another pick dying before he played a down.
We've all acknowledged Kwesi is better when dealing with known quantities like free agency or trades, it's the unknown quantities like the draft where he has struggled. GM's make their bread in the draft and finding those sleeper players in the mid to late rounds. My 86-year old aunt Mary in Iowa could sign known players in free agency. I want a GM that can find me Puka Nacua in the 5th round.
On his record, again, he was gift wrapped a playoff caliber roster from Spielman day 1. This was not the normal "cupboard is bare" scenario most new GM's have to deal with. This was a loaded roster complete with an upper echelon quarterback. We can go back and forth on what Kwesi's done or hasn't done, but the most telling and indicating fact to me is that the best players on this roster are still guys drafted by the previous regime 4+ years ago.
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My criticism of Kwesi comes mostly from the 2025 offseason trades. Mekhi Blackmon hasn’t been great in Indy, but he did start several games. We needed a corner. He was a corner with a year of experience in Flores’s defense. Why choose Jeff Okudah over him? Was it the injury? Who knows, but I’m curious what influence Flores had on that decision.
I don’t know anyone who was dead set against trading Ed Ingram, especially considering we intended to beef up our IOL in free agency, but that one doesn’t look so good right now either. He had a better year than Will Fries, as did Dalton Risner. I won’t mention Garret Bradbury.
It’s the same with Harrison Phillips. The intent was to beef up the DL by upgrading with better inside pass rushers in Hargrave and Allen. And that happened. We did rush the passer better inside. But Phillips played better than both of them against the run this year. Stopping the run was a problem for us in 2025 after finishing as the 2nd best run defense the year before.
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(01-28-2026, 03:51 PM)MaroonBells Wrote: Of course. But it’s not like he lost those picks in a poker game. One was used for TJ Hockenson and the other two for Dallas Turner. You can maybe argue that those players were not WORTH those 2nd rounders. I don’t know who would make that argument, but it’s a different argument altogether.
Turner remains to be seen, it was a lot and they should have likely found players that would been starters with 2nd round picks, if Turner becomes an all pro, sure, if he is just another nice player then it can be argued it was 2 much. and you could have gotten equal talent in a 2nd round TE at a lower price than what we have gotten from Hock. His injury was unfortunate but even healthy he hasnt tilted the table much.
Why isn't Chuck Foreman in the Hall of Fame?
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01-28-2026, 05:37 PM
(This post was last modified: 01-28-2026, 05:46 PM by medaille.)
I still don’t really believe that Kwesi is a bad drafter as much as that he has traded away so many picks that there’s not many left. Like in the last 3 drafts, he’s had 2 day 2 picks instead of 6, and while we generally thought Hockenson and Turner were worth it and we would have been fine with all the trades if it meant we could have gotten Maye, it does leave the cupboard a little bare in terms of draft successes.
(01-28-2026, 04:23 PM)JimmyinSD Wrote: Turner remains to be seen, it was a lot and they should have likely found players that would been starters with 2nd round picks, if Turner becomes an all pro, sure, if he is just another nice player then it can be argued it was 2 much. and you could have gotten equal talent in a 2nd round TE at a lower price than what we have gotten from Hock. His injury was unfortunate but even healthy he hasnt tilted the table much.
I think the problem I have with the Kwesi can't draft crowd is that they don't acknowledge that those picks were spent on a player who was productive for us. They just look at the players that were drafted and not the total production we received from those picks.
Like if we packaged up a huge draft bundle for Burrows and won three SBs, you could still make the argument that Kwesi sucked at drafting if you ignored the fact that all those draft picks were used on Burrows and only argued that the number of starters from a handful of day 3 picks wasn't very high.
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(01-28-2026, 05:37 PM)medaille Wrote: I think the problem I have with the Kwesi can't draft crowd is that they don't acknowledge that those picks were spent on a player who was productive for us. They just look at the players that were drafted and not the total production we received from those picks.
Well, and this brings up another point of contention for me as it relates to Kwesi and the draft...he just doesn't read the tea leaves or understand the strength of various drafts. Take Hockenson, why do you think Detroit was so willing to trade away a productive player who they used a top pick on just a few years prior? It's because they didn't want to pay him top TE money on a new contract (which the Vikings did) and understood in a historically deep draft crop at TE, they could get a highly ranked player who would likely put up similar numbers on a rookie contract. Bam! They draft Sam LaPorta. This year in a historically deep rookie crop at RB, what does Kwesi do? Trades two draft picks for Jordan Mason prior to the draft and we dont even consider using a draft pick on the position. It's like, bro, read the f'n room and make your moves accordingly!
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(01-28-2026, 04:23 PM)JimmyinSD Wrote: Turner remains to be seen, it was a lot and they should have likely found players that would been starters with 2nd round picks, if Turner becomes an all pro, sure, if he is just another nice player then it can be argued it was 2 much. and you could have gotten equal talent in a 2nd round TE at a lower price than what we have gotten from Hock. His injury was unfortunate but even healthy he hasnt tilted the table much.
You don’t know that. We picked 55th in the 2nd round in 2023. There were two TEs taken in the 2nd round that year after pick 55. Luke Schoonmaker and Brenton Strange. Just since those players were drafted, Hockenson has more yards and TDs than both of them COMBINED, despite missing a big chunk of the ’23 season and catching passes from a half dozen QBs.
Sure, Dallas Turner might not be more than just a “nice player.” It’s too early to say with any certainty. But I’d say the returns are looking good, wouldn’t you agree? Considering he had more sacks than Jared Verse this year despite far fewer snaps and STILL being younger than Verse was when he was drafted two years ago. I’m not saying Turner is as good as Verse. He’s not. Not yet anyway. But the trajectory is encouraging.
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(01-28-2026, 04:23 PM)JimmyinSD Wrote: Turner remains to be seen, it was a lot and they should have likely found players that would been starters with 2nd round picks, if Turner becomes an all pro, sure, if he is just another nice player then it can be argued it was 2 much. and you could have gotten equal talent in a 2nd round TE at a lower price than what we have gotten from Hock. His injury was unfortunate but even healthy he hasnt tilted the table much.
Listen, I think the jury is still out on Turner but he's trending in the right way, but there's no way for you to know that.
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