Theodore Bridgewater: Crystal Ball?

[Guest]

@StickyBun said:

@Waterboy said:

@PSBLAKE said:
I loved Teddy as a player and a leader wish the knee would have let his career develope to its full potential.

His knee didn’t limit his potential.  His arm does.

Agreed, some here act like he was a completely different player before the injury. Looks like the same guy as always. 

But blaming his knee injury allows people to believe that the Vikings drafted a franchise QB that would have led us to championships - and we were robbed. It would damage some prized perspectives if it were declared that he would never have become more than a journeyman.

[Guest]

@ArizonaViking said:

@Jor-El said:
I almost forgot Bridgewater threw 12 and 9 INTs his first 2 seasons (with only 14 TDs per year). It's amazing that Zimmer, famous for hating turnovers, was tolerant of that ratio. But it's more amazing that anyone still burns a candle for a QB who has barely averaged 1 TD pass per start.

I really think money is THE factor for many people's attitude about quarterbacks - even when they won't admit it. Cousins' contract doomed him to be disliked by those fans. The same people constantly brought up statistics about Sam Bradford's lifetime earnings with great anger, and it's probably the same people constantly citing Tom Brady giving the Patriots "a bargain". Bridgewater, meanwhile, was on a rookie contract and buying a house for his mom, etc. I know, a big salary can tip the salary cap to prevent signing other players, but I also think some of the attitude is just plain old wealth resentment.

Funny, but Cousins' current contract  isn't even the highest in the league right now.  Last I read it was like 13th or something.  I don't really care what the Vikings pay him, it's not like the money is coming out of my pockets or anyone else's for that matter.  Why people hate over this is amazing.

I disagree with both AV and J-E.  If Cousins elevated the team, no one would complain about his contract.  Think about Mahomes contract, anyone here hating him for that or wouldn't want him for QB because of that contract?  And it is a zero sum game.  Yes, you can play with the cap and delay hard decisions but ultimately you have to pay the piper.   You pay Cousins like he elevates the team and you can't fix other areas.  If he doesn't elevate the team, well you have hamstrung the team.

Now, according to Sporting News, in 2020 Cousin's contract took up 15.5% of the cap in 2020. (https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news...oa9qsfjnpe) .

Now compare:

Super Bowl winners since 2010, with cap percentage:
2020: Patrick Mahomes: 2.4% (Rookie)
2019: Tom Brady: 12.4%
2018: Nick Foles: 1.0% — Carson Wentz 3.6% (Rookie)
2017: Tom Brady: 8.9%
2016: Peyton Manning: 12.2%
2015: Tom Brady: 11.1%
2014: Russell Wilson: 0.6% (Rookie)
2013: Joe Flacco: 6.6% (Rookie)
2012: Eli Manning: 11.7%
2011: Aaron Rodgers: Uncapped season
2010: Drew Brees: 8.7%
(https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/rav...cheap-deal)

So, not wealth resentment.  The NFL has a salary cap; you must take from Peter to pay Paul (or Kirk).

[Guest]

@greediron said:

@Waterboy said:

@greediron said:

@MaroonBells said:
Teddy played well the first half of the season and then completely fell apart. Not sure what the cause was for that, but I'd put the Panthers at the top of the list of teams most likely to land Watson. Not sure what happens to Teddy now, but I sure hope he doesn't end up with the Bears. 

As I didn't watch any games, this is speculation, but that sounds like opponents getting film and recognized the limitations.  Now one could say the limitation could have been partly the offense, the coach and the QB.

But Teddy is likely a system QB.  I think he was the perfect fit with Zim.  Play smart, don't make mistakes and rely on the running game and the D.  What impressed me with Teddy was that when the reins came off, he played his best.  He put up good stats in the 2 minute drill and at the end of games.  He was kind of the opposite of Kirk, he thrived under pressure.

He wasn't going to be the next watson or mahomes, but he could have been similar to brady/montana.  Smart, efficient and winning.  (I say similar, not exactly like those guys in all their legendary status, so chill)

Umm, no.....  I'd take Kirk every day of the week over Teddy.  Teddy = purely a system qb.  Kirk a top 10 QB, but not elite.  Dollar wise, Teddy did fine.  Overall performance has never been at Kirk's level.  Do you see 4,000 yards or 30 TD's anywhere on this list?

Year	Team	CMP%	YDS	TD	INT	Rating
2020	Saints	60.9	118	1	1	70.6
2017	Vikings	0.0	0	0	1	0.0
2015	Vikings	65.3	3,231	14	9	88.7
2014	Vikings	64.4	2,919	14	12	85.2
Career		66.5	11,385	53	36	89.5

"He was kind of the opposite of Kirk, he thrived under pressure." 

Kirk puts up big numbers, he is a better QB.  But my point is, Teddy thrived under pressure.  Kirk, not so much.

Please show one fact backing this up.  There are none, be it comeback or 4th quarter victories.  Kirk beats Teddy badly in any and every area you can look up. 

[Guest]

Kirk has nearly doubled the number of both, and he has many more per year, even factoring in his firat three years where he played sparingly. 

[Guest]

@greediron said:

@Waterboy said:

@greediron said:

@MaroonBells said:
Teddy played well the first half of the season and then completely fell apart. Not sure what the cause was for that, but I'd put the Panthers at the top of the list of teams most likely to land Watson. Not sure what happens to Teddy now, but I sure hope he doesn't end up with the Bears. 

As I didn't watch any games, this is speculation, but that sounds like opponents getting film and recognized the limitations.  Now one could say the limitation could have been partly the offense, the coach and the QB.

But Teddy is likely a system QB.  I think he was the perfect fit with Zim.  Play smart, don't make mistakes and rely on the running game and the D.  What impressed me with Teddy was that when the reins came off, he played his best.  He put up good stats in the 2 minute drill and at the end of games.  He was kind of the opposite of Kirk, he thrived under pressure.

He wasn't going to be the next watson or mahomes, but he could have been similar to brady/montana.  Smart, efficient and winning.  (I say similar, not exactly like those guys in all their legendary status, so chill)

Umm, no.....  I'd take Kirk every day of the week over Teddy.  Teddy = purely a system qb.  Kirk a top 10 QB, but not elite.  Dollar wise, Teddy did fine.  Overall performance has never been at Kirk's level.  Do you see 4,000 yards or 30 TD's anywhere on this list?

Year	Team	CMP%	YDS	TD	INT	Rating
2020	Saints	60.9	118	1	1	70.6
2017	Vikings	0.0	0	0	1	0.0
2015	Vikings	65.3	3,231	14	9	88.7
2014	Vikings	64.4	2,919	14	12	85.2
Career		66.5	11,385	53	36	89.5

"He was kind of the opposite of Kirk, he thrived under pressure." 

Kirk puts up big numbers, he is a better QB.  But my point is, Teddy thrived under pressure.  Kirk, not so much.

How does those TDs to turnovers s look if you add in fumbles?

[Guest]

@Waterboy said:

@greediron said:

@Waterboy said:

@greediron said:

@MaroonBells said:
Teddy played well the first half of the season and then completely fell apart. Not sure what the cause was for that, but I'd put the Panthers at the top of the list of teams most likely to land Watson. Not sure what happens to Teddy now, but I sure hope he doesn't end up with the Bears. 

As I didn't watch any games, this is speculation, but that sounds like opponents getting film and recognized the limitations.  Now one could say the limitation could have been partly the offense, the coach and the QB.

But Teddy is likely a system QB.  I think he was the perfect fit with Zim.  Play smart, don't make mistakes and rely on the running game and the D.  What impressed me with Teddy was that when the reins came off, he played his best.  He put up good stats in the 2 minute drill and at the end of games.  He was kind of the opposite of Kirk, he thrived under pressure.

He wasn't going to be the next watson or mahomes, but he could have been similar to brady/montana.  Smart, efficient and winning.  (I say similar, not exactly like those guys in all their legendary status, so chill)

Umm, no.....  I'd take Kirk every day of the week over Teddy.  Teddy = purely a system qb.  Kirk a top 10 QB, but not elite.  Dollar wise, Teddy did fine.  Overall performance has never been at Kirk's level.  Do you see 4,000 yards or 30 TD's anywhere on this list?

Year	Team	CMP%	YDS	TD	INT	Rating
2020	Saints	60.9	118	1	1	70.6
2017	Vikings	0.0	0	0	1	0.0
2015	Vikings	65.3	3,231	14	9	88.7
2014	Vikings	64.4	2,919	14	12	85.2
Career		66.5	11,385	53	36	89.5

"He was kind of the opposite of Kirk, he thrived under pressure." 

Kirk puts up big numbers, he is a better QB.  But my point is, Teddy thrived under pressure.  Kirk, not so much.

Please show one fact backing this up.  There are none, be it comeback or 4th quarter victories.  Kirk beats Teddy badly in any and every area you can look up. 

The 'Teddy the person' love I get.... The 'Teddy the NFL QB' love is very suspect. 3 teams now are going to pass on making him the guy. Yet he's better than Kirk Cousins to some. Its really odd.

[Guest]

@JimmyinSD said:

@greediron said:

@Waterboy said:

@greediron said:

@MaroonBells said:
Teddy played well the first half of the season and then completely fell apart. Not sure what the cause was for that, but I'd put the Panthers at the top of the list of teams most likely to land Watson. Not sure what happens to Teddy now, but I sure hope he doesn't end up with the Bears. 

As I didn't watch any games, this is speculation, but that sounds like opponents getting film and recognized the limitations.  Now one could say the limitation could have been partly the offense, the coach and the QB.

But Teddy is likely a system QB.  I think he was the perfect fit with Zim.  Play smart, don't make mistakes and rely on the running game and the D.  What impressed me with Teddy was that when the reins came off, he played his best.  He put up good stats in the 2 minute drill and at the end of games.  He was kind of the opposite of Kirk, he thrived under pressure.

He wasn't going to be the next watson or mahomes, but he could have been similar to brady/montana.  Smart, efficient and winning.  (I say similar, not exactly like those guys in all their legendary status, so chill)

Umm, no.....  I'd take Kirk every day of the week over Teddy.  Teddy = purely a system qb.  Kirk a top 10 QB, but not elite.  Dollar wise, Teddy did fine.  Overall performance has never been at Kirk's level.  Do you see 4,000 yards or 30 TD's anywhere on this list?

Year	Team	CMP%	YDS	TD	INT	Rating
2020	Saints	60.9	118	1	1	70.6
2017	Vikings	0.0	0	0	1	0.0
2015	Vikings	65.3	3,231	14	9	88.7
2014	Vikings	64.4	2,919	14	12	85.2
Career		66.5	11,385	53	36	89.5

"He was kind of the opposite of Kirk, he thrived under pressure." 

Kirk puts up big numbers, he is a better QB.  But my point is, Teddy thrived under pressure.  Kirk, not so much.

How does those TDs to turnovers s look if you add in fumbles?

Why dont you tell us?   i think
Cousins was averaging about four a year lost as a starter.  considering his oline rhe last few years, Im not sure thats exactly a game changer, but im sure Tedsy recovered more than he made, making him better there too?

[Guest]

@Waterboy said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@greediron said:

@Waterboy said:

@greediron said:

How does those TDs to turnovers s look if you add in fumbles?

Why dont you tell us?   i think
Cousins was averaging about four a year lost as a starter.  considering his oline rhe last few years, Im not sure thats exactly a game changer, but im sure Tedsy recovered more than he made, making him better there too?

After I posted a comment about his TD/INT ration I did wonder about that. So...

Teddy 2015 (best year): 14 TDs    9 INTs    8 Fumbles, 3 Lost  12 Turnovers
Teddy 2020                   15 TDs   11 INTs   6 Fumbles, 3 Lost  14 Turnovers

Kirk 2020:                      35 TDs   13 INTs  9 Fumbles, 5 Lost   18 Turnovers

Looking at a longer timeframe...

Cousins has started 107 games (including playoffs), thrown 85 INTs and lost 30 fumbles. That's 1.07 turnovers per start. He threw 193 TD passes, 1.8 per start.

Bridgewater has started 50 games, thrown 36 INTs and lost 6 fumbles, for 0.84 turnovers per start. 53 TD passes, 1.06 per start.

Cousins has 27% more turnovers, but 70% greater TD passes.

One more interesting stat: Cousins has been sacked 221 times in his career, but Bridgewater 131. That works out to 2.06 sacks per start for Cousins, but 2.62 sacks per start for Bridgewater. I realize the quality of the OL ahead of each player is a huge factor, but it surprised me to see that Bridgewater is sacked more per start. Cousins passes far more, too, so consider sacks per attempt: Cousins is sacked on 5.8% of his passing attempts, but Bridgewater is sacked on 8.2% of his attempts. That's a sack rate 41% higher...kind of surprising since Kirk is supposedly a statue.

[Guest]

@Waterboy said:

@greediron said:

@Waterboy said:

@greediron said:

@MaroonBells said:
Teddy played well the first half of the season and then completely fell apart. Not sure what the cause was for that, but I'd put the Panthers at the top of the list of teams most likely to land Watson. Not sure what happens to Teddy now, but I sure hope he doesn't end up with the Bears. 

As I didn't watch any games, this is speculation, but that sounds like opponents getting film and recognized the limitations.  Now one could say the limitation could have been partly the offense, the coach and the QB.

But Teddy is likely a system QB.  I think he was the perfect fit with Zim.  Play smart, don't make mistakes and rely on the running game and the D.  What impressed me with Teddy was that when the reins came off, he played his best.  He put up good stats in the 2 minute drill and at the end of games.  He was kind of the opposite of Kirk, he thrived under pressure.

He wasn't going to be the next watson or mahomes, but he could have been similar to brady/montana.  Smart, efficient and winning.  (I say similar, not exactly like those guys in all their legendary status, so chill)

Umm, no.....  I'd take Kirk every day of the week over Teddy.  Teddy = purely a system qb.  Kirk a top 10 QB, but not elite.  Dollar wise, Teddy did fine.  Overall performance has never been at Kirk's level.  Do you see 4,000 yards or 30 TD's anywhere on this list?

Year	Team	CMP%	YDS	TD	INT	Rating
2020	Saints	60.9	118	1	1	70.6
2017	Vikings	0.0	0	0	1	0.0
2015	Vikings	65.3	3,231	14	9	88.7
2014	Vikings	64.4	2,919	14	12	85.2
Career		66.5	11,385	53	36	89.5

"He was kind of the opposite of Kirk, he thrived under pressure." 

Kirk puts up big numbers, he is a better QB.  But my point is, Teddy thrived under pressure.  Kirk, not so much.

Please show one fact backing this up.  There are none, be it comeback or 4th quarter victories.  Kirk beats Teddy badly in any and every area you can look up. 

Lol.  Go ahead and look it up yourself.  

Teddy thrived in the 2 minute offense with Zimmer, late in games.  I have no idea what went on with the Panthers this year, but in experience it is never all one persons fault.  

Tell me, other than the playoff win in NO, when has Kirk impressed with his under pressure abilities?  I like him and think he is a good QB, but that is his one big downfall.  

[Guest]

@StickyBun said:

@Waterboy said:

@greediron said:

@Waterboy said:

@greediron said:

@MaroonBells said:
Teddy played well the first half of the season and then completely fell apart. Not sure what the cause was for that, but I'd put the Panthers at the top of the list of teams most likely to land Watson. Not sure what happens to Teddy now, but I sure hope he doesn't end up with the Bears. 

As I didn't watch any games, this is speculation, but that sounds like opponents getting film and recognized the limitations.  Now one could say the limitation could have been partly the offense, the coach and the QB.

But Teddy is likely a system QB.  I think he was the perfect fit with Zim.  Play smart, don't make mistakes and rely on the running game and the D.  What impressed me with Teddy was that when the reins came off, he played his best.  He put up good stats in the 2 minute drill and at the end of games.  He was kind of the opposite of Kirk, he thrived under pressure.

He wasn't going to be the next watson or mahomes, but he could have been similar to brady/montana.  Smart, efficient and winning.  (I say similar, not exactly like those guys in all their legendary status, so chill)

Umm, no.....  I'd take Kirk every day of the week over Teddy.  Teddy = purely a system qb.  Kirk a top 10 QB, but not elite.  Dollar wise, Teddy did fine.  Overall performance has never been at Kirk's level.  Do you see 4,000 yards or 30 TD's anywhere on this list?

Year	Team	CMP%	YDS	TD	INT	Rating
2020	Saints	60.9	118	1	1	70.6
2017	Vikings	0.0	0	0	1	0.0
2015	Vikings	65.3	3,231	14	9	88.7
2014	Vikings	64.4	2,919	14	12	85.2
Career		66.5	11,385	53	36	89.5

"He was kind of the opposite of Kirk, he thrived under pressure." 

Kirk puts up big numbers, he is a better QB.  But my point is, Teddy thrived under pressure.  Kirk, not so much.

Please show one fact backing this up.  There are none, be it comeback or 4th quarter victories.  Kirk beats Teddy badly in any and every area you can look up. 

The 'Teddy the person' love I get.... The 'Teddy the NFL QB' love is very suspect. 3 teams now are going to pass on making him the guy. Yet he's better than Kirk Cousins to some. Its really odd.

Never said that.